Brilliant Voices: Episode One with Hannah Sallmann and August Carlson
On the first episode of the Brilliant Voices podcast…
Ruby and Woodzick talk with Hannah Sallmann and August Carlson, who currently facilitate one of IOB’s newest programs, The Fellowship, in Eau Claire. The chat covers portal fiction, neurodivergent artistic organization piles, how Hannah and August choose their artistic mediums, and more!
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WOODZICK: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the first episode of the Brilliant Voices podcast. My name is Woodzick. My pronouns are they/them, and I am the Statewide Outreach Manager for Islands of Brilliance.
RUBY: Hello, and I am Ruby Wilson. My pronouns are they/she, and I am a Creative Technologist for IOB.
WOODZICK: So, Islands of Brilliance is a Milwaukee-based nonprofit that delivers programming that uses creativity and digital art to connect with and empower neurodivergent individuals. And this podcast is going to be all about the relationship between neurodiversity and creativity.
RUBY: Oh, I'm so excited. Alright. Well, so one of the things that we always do in an IOB workshop to start off is a stroke or an intro question to fan the flames of creativity.
So Woodzick and our listeners, our question of the day is: if you could transform any mundane task into a creative one, into a magical ritual, what task would you choose? And what mystical elements would happen?
WOODZICK: Oh, this is such a good question, Ruby, because I, along with other neurodivergent humans, struggle with executive function real hard sometimes. I would say the task that I have the hardest time with is like organizing stuff. You'll hear it in the episode. We talked about our artistic piles. And so I would like to get some like Jean Grey telekinesis going on. I think that like if I could sit in a comfy chair and magically move things and sort them into keep, donate, throw away piles, life would be a lot better. How about you?
RUBY: I love that. I've thought about this while I've been doing a task of the dishes. I don't like the textures, but I also am like, I feel like I'm getting rid of the bad vibes when I do do this. Like, dishes. So I'm like, I already do feel like I'm getting rid of energy.
So, if I could just kind of imbue that with some more clarity and like, so maybe I don't need to touch the textures, that would be fantastic. So, that would be, that'd be me.
WOODZICK: I like that a lot. I know you like sound effects. What sound effects would you like to be added to dishwashing?
RUBY: Oh, well, see, my first thought was like a car wash, but that I think was just like water.
So it'd be like
(Whacky water sounds.)
That was, yeah, there'd be, yeah, there'd be some swishing and some like, just some sprinkly magical sounds every once in a while.
WOODZICK: I like that. So I know I'm, you know, I sort of sent a sensory seeker at times. And there's something very cool to me about being inside a car wash.
RUBY: Yes.
WOODZICK: Feels like being in a spaceship.
RUBY: Yes. Yes.
WOODZICK: It's very soothing to me. I know not always, not always for everyone soothing. We're going to move on to our next segment now.
RUBY: Yes.
WOODZICK: Which is our shiny rock segment. And so we're each going to bring something that's currently juicy and joyful for each of us. So my shiny rock right now is something that one of our coworkers introduced to me, our Director of Technology, Chris.
It is a show called Taskmaster. And it is the original series is in the UK. There's a current series going on right now. All the episodes are free on YouTube. Nick Mohammed is one of the contestants. He played Nate on Ted Lasso. And so, the whole premise of this is that there are two comedians, Greg and Alex, and Alex sets these tasks, like filming the most emotional scene with an imaginary friend, or, you know, oh, what was it? Make the most impressive catch. And you have 30 minutes to do it. And then Greg becomes the taskmaster. And so he arbitrarily decides, like, some of them are objective, like fastest wins. And so that's pretty much set. But there's a lot of subjective things. And so it's just a very delightful show.
And one of the contestants I particularly like from the show is Fern Brady. And she has a Netflix special that just dropped in the US called Autistic Bikini Queen. And she's also written an international bestseller memoir called Strong Female Character, which she herself admits is kind of a joke. But one of the things that's really rad is she goes into depth about, like, in first-person language, about what it's like to experience a meltdown. And that is some of the most visceral and accurate writing about being autistic that I think is available to us. That's my shiny rock. And so, my gift to you, dear listeners, check out Taskmaster; check out Fern Brady. So, Ruby, what is your shiny rock this episode?
RUBY: I thought I would go very literal for the first episode, and so I'm actually thinking about rocks. So--
WOODZICK: I love it!
RUBY: Our guests, one of our guests on the podcast this week talked a lot about going and finding rocks, and just different stuff in nature that then they use in their art. And I've been since inspired, since we talked to them, and I've walked around, collected rocks, and there's just art supplies and inspiration everywhere. So, I recommend to listeners: just go walk around, see what you can find that could be either a paintbrush, could be like a stick. Like, the world is open, and you get to connect with earth and art. And I just think that that rocks. No pun intended. So my first shiny rock is rocks.
WOODZICK: I love it. My dad is a geologist.
RUBY: Whoa, that's so cool.
WOODZICK: Like rocks have been part of my life for a long time, not to brag.
But two things that I thought of while you were saying that are up here, I live in northern Wisconsin and in certain communities, there's this sort of thing that's, I would call it um, more accessible geocaching. Like geocaching folks find something there's, they don't move it or they do move it and there's clues and whatnot, but they'll paint rocks and hide them in different places around town. And the idea is not that you take the rock, but once you find the ladybug rock or whatever, then you put it in a different location. So like another kid can discover it. And it's just, it's delightful. It's simple and delightful and it sparks joy. So, rock out with some rocks, y'all.
RUBY: Yes.
WOODZICK: Our first, should we talk about the first guests on our podcast, Ruby?
RUBY: Yes!
WOODZICK: So they are Hannah Sallman and August Carlson who facilitate Islands of Brilliance's Fellowship program in Eau Claire. The Fellowship is a program that focuses on transition age neurodivergent folks. So we're talking 16 to 30s-ish, and we're currently running it in six cities across Wisconsin, which is pretty rad.
RUBY: Pretty rad indeed. We got a great conversation coming up. We talk about portals, D&D, we talk about piles. It gets fun. So grab your fidgets. I have three drinks next to me. Grab your snacks, grab any kind of beverage you want, and get comfy and enjoy Episode One of Brilliant Voices.
WOODZICK: Everyone, the time has come. This is the first interview on the first episode of the Brilliant Voices podcast. We are so pleased to welcome, hailing from Eau Claire, Wisconsin, we have Hannah Salmon and August Carlson. Welcome, y'all. Let's introduce you to our audience. So what's your story? Let's start with Hannah.
HANNAH: Hi, my name is Hannah. I'm an artist based out of Eau Claire and I'm also a Brilliant Fellow through Islands of Brilliance.
WOODZICK: Welcome.
AUGUST: My name is August Carlson. I'm also a Brilliant Fellow through Islands of Brilliance based in Eau Claire. I am also a recent graduate of the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire. I have a bachelor's degree in fine arts, specifically in illustration.
WOODZICK: Right on. We love these--Ruby, so co-host Ruby, we would call this juicy, right? Do you want to sort of define the juice before you get into your next question?
RUBY: Oh, how do to define 'juice'? I think that's just the little like, "oh, that feels good." Or like, "I want to chase after that inspiration" that is like, or you just have like a very big reaction. It's like, "oh, I love that." So with that, going into our first question, I ask, where do you find your inspiration as an artist? So this could be artists you look up to. I often find inspiration in just leaf patterns, so it could get very funky or abstract or very grounded as well. And then I also wonder, like, where does your art come from? Do you feel like it like forms from somewhere? So we are going to go with Augie first, I believe.
AUGUST: Yeah! So, I mean, I've always been very motivated by narratives and storytelling, you know, magical, sci-fi, fantasy themes. Those are very common motivators for me. I love to world build. I'm very inspired by books, illustrators that I admire, animated movies, video games, that sort of stuff. Media that influenced me as a kid is also something that I return to a lot. I think nostalgia can be a powerful motivating force as well. I was diagnosed with ADHD in middle school. And that is something that I realize has been a big motivating factor. And I think that's a big factor for me, too. Just kind of when I find something that my brain becomes very fixated on, I tend to really follow that, follow that impulse. So, yeah.
RUBY: I love that. All right, Hannah, where do you find this inspiration?
HANNAH: Oh, that's such a good question. Similar to Augie, I take a lot of inspiration from childhood nostalgia. So maybe that's, like, My Neighbor Totoro. Or this book of Aesop's Fables that was really beautifully illustrated with, like, watercolor drawings. And, yeah, there's something very strong about narratives for me. I love it when art tells a story. I think one of my big art inspirations is, I don't know, I think the term is called portal fiction. It's where this, like, very young, usually a child, a young protagonist finds a portal somewhere. They get pulled into this alternate world. And they have this grand adventure. And there's usually, like, whimsical creatures or some world where the rules of that world in the portal don't always follow, like, real-world rules.
And that's very intriguing to me. I think there's something really cool about art in that we can tell a story and tell our own stories in ways that might, you know, be a little bit different. Otherwise, just be, like, cast aside as, like, oh, that's silly. Like, that doesn't make any sense. But, no, like, you have to, like, throw me a bone. Let's get in this portal together. And, like, you know, I'll guide you through this world that's inside of me. And, you know, just, like, let you into my imagination. Yeah. I think art can tell – I mean, especially as, like, a neurodivergent person. I was recently diagnosed with autism. It can also really help me guide my way through my own imagination. It can help me identify my emotions.
So oftentimes I have a really hard time identifying my emotions. And when I'm making a picture, I'm, like, 'oh, okay, this is what's happening.' Or through this process, okay, I can better articulate things that can be really hard to describe. And then other people can maybe identify with that, too. And then I'm all of a sudden, like, inviting other people into my emotional experience. And there's a lot of community to be found there.
RUBY: Oh, there's so much truth to that. Oh, yes, go.
AUGUST: No, I just wanted to say that I can totally relate to that. I mean, Hannah and I, we've also, you know, run our sessions at the library. We've related a lot together and with our participants kind of talking about those similar themes.
I think escapism is something that I think of a lot in that when you talk about portal fiction or portal – what is it again? Am I right about that?
RUBY: Portal fiction.
AUGUST: I love that. I didn't know that that was, like, a term or, like, a word to sort of describe a genre that I was really engaged in. And I'm so glad that you brought that up because that's also something that has motivated a lot of my interests and things that I, you know, like, I wrote a lot of stories as a kid. And I still do a lot of writing now. And I think that I just continue to go back to that because I think it's such a very, just a very, I don't know, an attractive theme or a theme that I'm just drawn to again and again because I think there's a lot of validation in it as well to sort of imagine a space that is, like, very welcoming or that is, like, oh, this is different. But I'm, like, accepted here.
Not that, you know, I have necessarily had those experiences of feeling unaccepted. I'm actually very lucky in that. But, you know.
RUBY: Yeah. Art can kind of, like, it can transform what we think and then put it into, like, this different medium of feeling, like, oh, this is what I was thinking. Or, like, showing someone something else that's, like, oh, I found this shiny rock. I want to show you. I don't know. It reminded me, Natalie, we so Doodle Lounge is where all the students draw together. And I remember one student once drew, like, this, like, dragon disco party that definitely doesn't exist in reality. But she had said something that's always stuck with me. Like, you get to make something that doesn't necessarily exist in real life.
And, like, that is what art can do a lot of the time. So I love that so much. Yeah.
AUGUST: Most of my art making that I prefer, at least, has always been, you know, fictionalized stuff or fictional characters. There's a lot of value, you know, being an art student, there's a lot of value to being able to represent the real world and honing those skills, maturing those skills in, you know, an academic setting it's really important to feel more confident in my skills as an artist. But, like, now that I've graduated, I, you know, I would love to do more figure drawing, like, casually. But it's probably not what I'm going to be making for the rest of my life, you know?
RUBY: That makes me think: how does, like, a character come to you? Or, like, do you find, like, you have an archetype that you want to bring into the world? Or, like, where does that spark kind of come from?
AUGUST: Yeah. I mean, now, now that... I find now... Now is a little more difficult. But I think, you know, a while ago, usually I would get that idea either from some friends or something. I tend to do a lot of art making with a friend group or certain friends. I find that that's just so much more engaging and validating to be able to create stories with other people. I'm not as self-motivated as I was when I was maybe in middle school or high school. I was writing a lot of stories by myself.
So, you know. Like, I'll play a lot of, you know, tabletop role-playing games like D&D and stuff like that. And characters usually come to me if I kind of look at the sort of structure that's there already in the story. I feel like I used to create a lot of characters just for the sake of, like, "Oh, what if I, you know, made a kid with a talking sword?" That'd be kind of cool. But now I think a lot of character ideas now are based in a world that I like to create with a group of people. So, you know, they exist within that universe.
RUBY: That's cool.
HANNAH: I feel something differently about my art. My art is very autobiographical. Like, I do a lot of self-portraits.
RUBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: And there is this whole series of paintings I did when I was in school studying art therapy, actually. It was a program that was really encouraging to self-reflect and find containment within your art and process your own, you know, your own emotions. And I painted, like, seven different watercolor portraits of myself as the goat god Pan, who's a Greek mythology figure who represents nature. And looking back on those, like, even though I had an idea about my thesis when I was painting them, like, looking back, I'm like, "OIh, my gosh." Like, this was all about my identity coming to terms with being, you know, an autistic and non-binary person trying to find, you know, what is my true nature? Under all of this masking that I've done throughout my life.
You know, like, what's really under there? Like, if you strip all the layers off of, like, social conditioning and survival skills and coping skills, like, oh, I'm just kind of like a little goat guy who wants to frolic through the woods and just be free. And what's interesting about that is something I noticed about the way I paint myself is that I very rarely depict myself with eyes engaging the viewer. So I'll often, like, have something close to me. I'm not covering my eyes or looking down. And I think for me, like, that's how I feel most comfortable engaging with other people is by not always making direct eye contact. Sometimes I overcompensate and I'll make intense eye contact. But when I'm really fully unmasking, like, my eyes are everywhere. I'm not always looking at the person I'm engaging with.
And, you know, I feel like art is such a beautiful way to reflect parts of our identity that we might not always know that we have. But it's there. Like, art has a way of just telling the truth sometimes. So as much as you can engage in fantasy, there's almost, like, I don't know, I think there's an Oscar Wilde quote around, like, "Give a man a mask and he'll tell you the truth." Yeah. It can be a way of just playing with aspects of yourself that don't always get to come out to play. And, you know, what interesting, juicy things can you find out about yourself just by observing?
RUBY: Yes.
WOODZICK: I love that.
RUBY: I love that.
I feel like sometimes I'll make a piece and I'll be, like, before I'll be, like, I want to know what this is going to be about. And then, like, a week later I'll look back and I'll be, like, whoa, I think this art is telling me something that I didn't know about myself in a way. No, but, yeah, I relate to that. I was diagnosed with ADHD in high school, but recently I found out I have aphantasia, so I can't visualize. So often art is, like, I'm making representations of things that, like, I'm finding out more about myself of, like, oh, how would I visualize this thought if I could? And then it's, like, telling me something back. So it can be, like, a conversation with myself.
And I find I often want to create, like, characters, but then I'm, like, oh, wait, that's just me in, like, this other form. And I'm doing this, which makes me think, hmm, maybe I'm hungry. I don't know. Yeah.
AUGUST: Well, there's a lot of like that, and I think that's a valid way of character making. I think there's a lot of people that, that will represent themselves in different ways or different aspects of themselves through characters. Though building and storytelling. I actually, in D&D, or not D&D, but a role-playing campaign was a different game system than just typical Dungeons & Dragons. But in a game that I did with my friends, I made a character that, where I was, like, you know, the game was all about the player characters.
And some NPC characters can have a connection to, like, a mythological story. And some NPC characters can have a connection to a mythological or folktale character. And it was really cool. And I was, like, oh, you know, trying to think of what would be kind of fun. It's more of a gritty setting. It's more of, like, a, you know, kind of a crime-solving, mystery-solving setting. And I was, like, oh, I'll just, I'll make a kid who's, like, his connection is to Peter Pan. So this kid is Peter Pan. And I ended up having so much fun playing this character. And reconnecting to themes of imagination and nostalgia, and you know, self-confidence as well. It was super influential for me. And that character means a lot to me now, just being able to sort of explore that kid's story.
RUBY: Yes. I love that. I've played, like, one kind of similar thing, of, like, it wasn't Dungeons & Dragons, but it was, like, Call of Cthulhu type of thing. Where I then was, like, it was 1920s Boston. And I was, like, Gino. And I'm Italian. So it was, like, I don't know. I took on that character. And that was such, like, a cool storytelling thing. And I also found, like, I don't know. It was, like, whoa, if I was a person in a different reality. And I got to, like, move differently. And, like, I don't know. It was very insightful. So I love that, like, you're bringing in the different aspects of art. Because, like, I think I'll come into it later on what medium do you use.
But there's so many different avenues of what we're talking about and waves we can express. And I always just, I don't know. I love that spectrum of everything that you can create. So, yeah. I think, shall we move on to the next question? I think.
WOODZICK: Yeah. I just want to. I'm in awe of all the things that we're sharing. But I love. Yeah. I'm going to take that away from me. Portal with me. Portal fiction. Because immediately I'm thinking, like, I'm thinking, you know, Alice in Wonderland. Coraline. Nightmare Before Christmas, anyone? And a lot of these characters I really, like. I identify with Jack Skellington, like, really. A lot. And I can't quite tell you why I do. And I think for me, when y'all were chatting about stuff, it's so...
So I'm autistic and have ADHD. And that thing, especially when you're a kid of like not necessarily knowing what to do. Speaking for myself, not necessarily knowing what to do about big emotions and feeling. You know, feeling other or weird in a way, either because of bullying or just not quite knowing one's place in the world, and then having these linchpins of fictional characters. I've been really obsessed with Edward Gorey's art since I was a kid. And that was because... So, the musical Cats.
RUBY: Oh, yes!
WOODZICK: They lyrics are based on a T.S. Elliot book, it's called Practical Guide to Cats. And there's Edward Gorey art. Like in this, something that my aunt gave me as a birthday present. Oh, Book of Practical Cats--I'm Talking around it, but like, and now I have like three Edward Gorey tattoos and that very like a dark inked aesthetic is very like. That's what I, you know, I use, I use that sort of vocabulary. in the visual art I create, though I consider myself more of a performing artist than a visual artist. But I do want to segue into the next question because I think we've already been talking about this a bit, but. How. I'd love to know. From all of us. Like, how does your neurodivergence inform your artistic practice, or do you think it does in ways that you're able to identify? Hannah, can we start with you first?
HANNAH: Sure. I love this question. I was thinking about this earlier today, how art for me is just such a sensory buffet.
RUBY: Oh, I love that.
HANNAH: Yeah. I'm, I'm sitting at my art desk right now and there's like 20 rocks in front of me that are all painted to look like strawberries. Here's one of them. I'm showing you.
RUBY: Oh, that's so cute.
HANNAH: Thank you. And it's just like, I'm just, I just love how they look like they're so bright and so vibrant and they're, they're heavy. And that feels nice on my hand. And like the sensation of painting them. I don't know. It just makes me feel really calm. I think for me, like stimming happens a lot through art. So, you know, there are like icky art textures that I steer clear of, like oil paints, ceramic clay. I took some classes, did not like them.
And there are other arts where I'm just like, yes, yes. Like it feels calming. It feels soothing. Even like with my strawberry rocks, like going on a walk to like collect them from the river. Like, you know, like there's so many different pieces of this process where I'm regulating myself and I'm getting back into my body as someone who dissociates a lot because my nervous system is very sensitive. And this world is very big and loud. And there are lots of people that, you know, it's, it's, it's hard. It's hard to be an autistic person in a world that wasn't built for me. So art gives me a chance to, like, not only regulate but also pick and choose what I want to do and have that agency over how things look and how things feel, and have complete control over the process sometimes.
Like, that feels very empowering to me. And yeah, I just love it. It really depends on what I'm feeling too, like the outcome of my art. Yeah, I highly suspect that I have some undiagnosed ADHD. And if you take a look through my Instagram feed, it's like literally there's no media that repeats itself. Nothing, you know, I do one project and then I'm off to another project and then there's a different media and then a different media and then different media. Like I don't have like a consistency in my art of like what I'm making. I don't, I can't just like pump out like 10 of the same painting and be like, okay, good. I'm going to go to a market and sell this. And it's my brand.
It's like, maybe my brand is just chaos.
RUBY: Yes!
HANNHA: Like the only consistency is change.
RUBY: Oh, I love that.
WOODZICK: Yes, this is not a video medium, dear listeners, but there is a lot of nodding and grinning happening from what Hannah has just shared. August, what, what's your vibe for this question?
AUGUST: Yeah, I well, first I wanted to say I can, I can totally relate to Hannah talking about kind of those that jumping from the thing to thing. I think I for me, how I interpret that when I find in that in my artistic process, I see it as, you know, because my ADHD brain, I know that things that are new and and kind of novel are very attractive.
And I will tend to sort of fix on those. And so I'll tend to, you know, pick up a--you know, come up with a new idea for a drawing or project and we'll get started on it. And then, you know, the dopamine sort of wears off and then it becomes monumentally more difficult to finish, um, so I I mean on the one hand, the the it's kind of a double-edged sword where you know, I can find a lot of intense motivation and fixation in art making.
Um, so you know, I-I there are there'll be times where I-you know sit down to draw and and I'm like, "Oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this" and I and I have this great idea and I and I work and I work and I look at the clock and I've missed two and a half meals and it's like 10 hours later and I spent my whole day sweating in bed and drawing, and I'm just like, "Oh, my god, I'm you know," and and it's it's interesting it's an interesting process um because there's something sort of exciting about that because I'm sort of riding the high of that fixation, um, but then I come out of it and you know, I'm like, "Oh God, my body feels gross. I gotta go take care of myself,"
Or you know, or I'll I'll find myself, I guess--It's not really like an art block, but if if I can't fixate on something, if I can't you know create in this extreme sort of situation, my brain is like, "I don't want to make anything at all." It's not fun; it's not good enough. So um, there's that. It's very picky. It's like, kind of like I have in my brain a little, very particular toddler who wants things done just one particular way, and you know, if I can't you know bring that, that dopamine rush, or bring something that is um, you know, shiny and sparkly enough. I kind of have to, you know, plug my nose and eat my vegetables.
RUBY: Oh, I relate.
WOODZICK: So well said, so well said. Well, Ruby, think we should move on to the next question?
RUBY: I think so because I think it it definitely relates to this.
WOODZICK: For sure.
RUBY: I find like how, so, the question is how do you decide which medium to use? So, like, is there something about the texture or process that is sensory seeking? Like, I found myself relating to both of your answers from the previous question, and I'm also an artist, that like I really like to have a shiny new craft, and then I like to move on and like paint, then I'll often like paint, then put like felt on it, and then like I'll just try to be like what is this? Um, but with like I like fiber art, and that's when I'm like I'm making something physical, and I'm getting an emotion out.
But if I want to be like a perfectionist and get it done fast because I know I won't return to it, I'll do like digital art so I wonder, I guess like what mediums also like talk about different mediums you use but like what are you drawn to and like what about it just gets you excited?
AUGUST: Yeah, so I would say I'm primarily a digital artist. I find digital art making is the most accessible to me. I really want to feel like I have the most control over my medium. You know, going to school for art, I get to learn about a lot of different types of mediums, figure out what works for me and what doesn't, and I found that there, you know, when I was working with something that was very permanent, it was super intimidating.
I didn't like, you know, I guess like the risk. And also, I think there's maybe a little bit of uh, you know, like the perfectionism or just kind of a brain block that I would meet where I'm like, "Oh, I don't want to work on this assignment because, you know, I have to make uh like an ink wash drawing" which was an actual assignment that I did and I was so intimidated by it because you know once I put the ink down it's there and I can't really delete it or erase it so I found that digital--digital painting is is the best for me, at least right now.
But I also really enjoy charcoal because you can push it around a lot it's easy to manipulate um so that charcoal is also a very fun sensory kind of medium for me--I have a couple of friends that hate charcoal for the same reason but it's too the sensory feeling isn't good for them but but I enjoy it a lot and then I, you know, like we talked about earlier, picking up new projects and kind of on a whim, I've done cross-stitching which was fun, and I've I've been really wanting to do like crochet and oh gosh what's it called embroidery, like I want to do some of those more physical ones.
But you know, kind of I guess I gotta think about whether I want to put in the money to get all those supplies and then kind of get uninterested in that and kind of put it away.
RUBY: The amount of times I've gone to Joanne's and bought things, and then I do it for an hour, and then it is probably like right next to me, and a pile right now is yeah astronomically high, yeah.
AUGUST: I have a whole box right next to me. I have a whole box of supplies for making earrings. I have a little case with earrings and clay.
RUBY: Yes, I've done that, too!
AUGUST: And I mean, I do go back to the earring making because it's pretty fun. I made a pair of lily pad earrings for a friend for her birthday recently, which was fun. But you know, just kind of go back and forth on when I want to do it, and that kind of thing.
HANNAH: Talking about like art supply piles! I literally like I don't have a separate studio; my bedroom is my art studio, so like I have a pile on my desk, a pile on my dresser. Actually, there aren't any clothes in my dresser, like there's literally just like old collages and like paint in my dresser right now, I'm using it for storage like there's like three different crochet projects next to my bed like I'm just around it's beautiful I love living like in my art like I feel very one with the process but yeah oh my gosh the piles!
RUBY: The piles!
HANNAH: That is a downside--
WOODZICK: That's a pin that we could all wear and it just says "The piles!" Like that's how we could find each other in the world.
AUGUST: It is kind of a downside of being primarily digital art is is I I do feel sometimes you're like oh my gosh I don't have any art! I don't have any, like what's I what's my portfolio gonna look like? It's kind of a lie because I do have a whole portfolio of work from college, but when most of your stuff is digital it can feel a little bit like, oh my gosh, you know, I'm not really living in it. I'd have to go and look for it
RUBY: Oh it can be so...I often my digital art will live digitally, and then like if I print something out, I'm like, "Whoa, you're real!"
AUGUST: Yeah!
RUBY: It takes on a different life and it's like, whoa, I see this so differently, but also like, I know it more in a way. It's yeah, but I forget to, and then it just lives in the digital escape...
AUGUST: Yeah, my senior exhibition before I graduated, had an exhibition of works and I did digital paintings and printed them out and framed them. And I like experimented with different types of paper for it to be printed on, like glossy and matte, and you know all that stuff. Oh my gosh, it was it was so nice just to see that digital work become physical, yeah.
RUBY: Definitely.
HANNAH: I wonder if this has anything to do with like the "out of sight, out of mind" phenomenon. I don't know; I've just heard that something. I have some friends who, you know, live with ADHD and they talk about like, oh, if something isn't visible, I often forget that it even exists.
RUBY: And the piles for me can be so easy. I'm like, if I know something's in a pile, maybe it's on the box. I don't know; I need it to all be out instead of put away because then I can find it easier, in a way, yeah. But oh, okay. Hannah, I want to hear more about because you've said you like a lot of different mediums, so like, what draws you to a medium for making something or what are your go-to's?
HANNAH: Oh, well someone's used the word accessibility earlier and I kind of want to return to that because for me, you know, being like a poor, low-income artist, like I often don't have a whole lot of extra spending money from for you know shiny new things as much as I'd like to. And I do splurge sometimes. But, I think for me, I usually try to use what's on hand, so that might involve like going on a walk and finding a cool stick or you know using broken glass in my neighbor's driveway and you know... It's the practice of found objects really – it's like taking what might otherwise be considered trash or easily discardable and seeing the potential in it, and usually, mushing it around with some mixed media and then creating something new.
And I think through that process, like there's automatically a story and a narrative that begins to form just through the transformation of the media um...I think in maybe like a more metaphysical kind of framework it's sort of like alchemy like you know like the basic definition of alchemy is like turning base metals into gold or like trying to find like the the elixir and I think that's kind of maybe if there was like an artist statement or like a thesis to my overall body of work that I've made it's like "How do we take what we've got and transform it into something beautiful?"
Yeah I think about like also how my art sort of reflects like my personal relationship to myself sometimes like two summers ago I got a surgery and all of a sudden like all I could do in the recovery process from that surgery was collage. And then I think about like okay like what do collage and surgery have in common you know my body is being sort of cut apart and then sewn back together in a way that might not be in the same order. Same with collage it's like I'm taking the magazine or my body might be what already exists and I'm altering it into something new and different.
And through that there's like this ownership process that takes place where I'm like okay--I don't know I'm losing my train of thought right now ownership process--yeah like being in the driver's seat of like okay in the surgery I'm not the one who's doing this it's like a surgeon like if i'm under anesthesia like all right i'm just giving control over to somebody else, I hope they do it well. I hope I wake up okay and I heal and I have a good recovery, you know there's a lot of like anxiety and fear around that, and with art media it's like okay like I get to be in charge now, I get to move around these images in a way that's pleasing and nice and looks good to me.
Yeah I think that's just an example, you know, art is alchemy, I think that's a really interesting process to explore.
AUGUST: Love that.
RUBY: I love that too.
WOODZICK: Collective sigh break.
RUBY: Yes.
WOODZICK: Like just a quick anecdote before we move on, I think kind of... you said something earlier about a menu perhaps or I just... sometimes I feel like the only things I really have control over in my life are you know what I curate for a meal for myself, you know, to actually eat. And then what I curate for myself in terms of the art I consume and make, and for me personally as someone who is non-binary but I was assigned female at birth and socialized in the Midwest as female, there's a lot that ties back to what you were saying a lot earlier Hannah about the masking and you know behaving a very certain way and not being too loud or goofy or whatever.
And I just love that art gives us some not only alchemy but autonomy and the ability to create either ourselves or, you know, unique characters, or what we want to see in the world. I think, Ruby, is what you were saying earlier. That's what's so special to me.
And also, like getting rid of it being quote-unquote good or not like I've gone through a lot of grad school and guess what? It's all super subjective, y'all! And so, like just even having that artistic practice that doesn't necessarily have a goal of something being finished or needing to be shared or sold or commodified...that's what's exciting for me. That's what gives me the juice,
AUGUST: Yep.
RUBY: Oh, well--Okay, I feel like this also then goes into this next question of like when was like a defining moment you knew art was for you but I'm also interested in like what was that journey throughout your life with art because I feel like it definitely changes and becomes a lot of different things for ourselves at different points in our life so like, not the whole life story, but like if you want to give like a small little roadmap of like what art has been with you throughout your life in a way, anyways...Hannah, I think you're first if you want to go for it.
HANNAH: Oh this is such a great question! I well, the first thing that comes to mind is crochet. I was taught by my mom to crochet when I was really little and I think her her mom taught her to crochet so my grandmother there's sort of like this matriarchal lineage of crochet handed down through my family and I think about how crochet--crochet has transformed for me because it's one of those art forms that might be considered a craft and you know it might be associated with women and as someone who's non-binary like I've related to to crochet not as a way to just like make a hat or like make something that's just useful to my family like even though that's beautiful nd I've done that, and there's a lot of value to that...
Like, how do I queer crochet like throughout my life? Like, there was this moment where I was thinking about, you know, having a non-binary body and like, what does that mean? And like, being visible. I like created this, like, crochet rainbow fishnet top to wear over my chest binder so I could just, you know, be breezy in the summer and like show off my binder and just, like, be prideful. And I wore it to Pride, and it was beautiful. Yeah, I don't know. It's just that art form; it's interesting how it just transformed from something where it's like, "Okay, I'm just following a pattern," doing stitch after stitch, after stitch, just like my mom taught me, to like, "Oh, I'm gonna make my own pattern and do it freestyle and use like wild rainbow string that my aunt gave me, and it's gonna be different."
And it's gonna... you know, it's gonna. I'm gonna have a relationship to it, and claim it in a way that I don't think anyone else in my family has done, as far as I know. So yeah, I don't know: crochet.
RUBY: There's something cool about you get to like, I like to make my own clothes sometimes, but like my stitching is just like, I get way too impatient. I just ran it through the machine, so it's like very chaotic, but there's something so freeing about like, I want to make this a specific garment that is not---I don't know, and then you get to make it and then wear it there's something just like, I don't know, so like special about that.
But I found a rug tufting gun hook that's like manual in my like grandpa--my grandparents' basement, when we were moving all their stuff out and it was like my great-grandpa's and he makes like these like lion rugs. But now I use it to make like completely different things, and it's always just fun, of like, I've seen a lot of different craft things come through in my family, and then like I love just doing the three-point turn of like I'm gonna take that and then I'm gonna make it my own and get to just jive with that, so I love and relate to everything you just said. Alright Augie, I'm interested in your path with art.
AUGUST: Yeah, well I think I think a big sort of starting point obviously for me is my, my parents have always been extremely encouraging of me to tell stories and and make things, and all that. You know, I-I remember when I was very young, I would you know print out the the stories that I would write on my parents' computer, and my mom worked in publishing, at some point, and so she was my editor so she would go through my manuscript and edit for me. And I, actually, still have a binder, I don't know if it's in my apartment here, or if it's at home, but I have a binder that's got all of those kinds of saved and held on to very, uh, I'd say me and my family, very, we hang on to a lot of stuff, very sentimental, I think.
We probably still have a binder that's got all my a lot of drawings that I did as a kid and I saved a lot of my stuff too. But I, I think, and and I mean, you hear you do probably hear this from a lot of artists that are like, oh, there's no one moment; I just was always like this. But, you know, it's kind of like that, but also, you know a lifelong sort of passion and honing your craft from a young age. But I guess I've been examining a little bit more of my influences as a kid and realizing that a lot of cartoonists I really liked like comic books I read a lot of comic books and there were a lot of illustrators that I liked too, I used to--I would go to my grandparents' cabin and take like a sticky note and they had a Shel Silverstein book and I pasted the sticky note over the illustrations in the Shel Silverstein book and traced it over the sticky note.
So like you know there's a little bit of that in there. So I think it just kind of was a natural conclusion, once I once I got to high school, and was like I like writing, but I don't know if I want to be an English major, and then, you know, kind of exploring a lot of new avenues of art and realizing that that was kind of the path that I wanted to follow on.
RUBH: Well, it is running down to the wire--Thank you for coming, I don't know how to transition...
WOODZICK: We'll all transition together!
RUBY: Yes!
WOODZICK: This has been such a dynamic conversation, we've covered so much in a little chunk of time, so August, Hannah, thank you both so much for sharing some of your insights into art making and creativity, and we just appreciate you and you were the first ever guests on our podcast, so that makes you extra flippin' awesome! So thank y'all so much!
HANNAH AND AUGUST: Thank you!
KATE: Hi, my name is Kate Siekman, Director of Learning and Outcomes for Islands of Brilliance. In today's podcast episode, you might have heard the term 'masking' mentioned several times.
Well, masking is a term that the autistic community has adopted to describe the strategy used by some autistic people, both consciously or unconsciously, to appear non-autistic in order to blend in and be more accepted in society; these may be situations where autistic folks make efforts to manually act in ways that come naturally to non-autistic people, both to meet social expectations to blend in.
Some examples of masking may include: Forced eye contact or forcing the amount of eye contact that is comfortable to the individual, reducing or hiding stimming--now, stimming are those comfort zone behaviors that help autistic folks self-regulate such as hand flapping or even switching to less noticeable stims such as playing with a pen. Another example may be planning in advance what individuals will say in certain social situations, this is also called scripting.
Through lived experiences and case studies, masking has been described as an exhausting effort that can lead to autistic burnout and other mental health issues. Although masking for some autistic folks may never go away completely, it's important to curate spaces where autistics can feel comfortable to unmask and to be celebrated for who they are. This is sometimes called autistic joy.
Art and creativity are great tools for creating these spaces. If you'd like to learn more about unmasking autism, I encourage you to check out the book called Unmasking Autism by Dr. Devon Price, and keep listening to this podcast where we always celebrate autistic identity and autistic joy in every episode. Thanks for listening!
WOODZICK: Alright, so such a great episode! I feel very proud of our first episode. So, dear listeners, if you're feeling inspired to connect with us, we invite you to follow Islands of Brilliance on Instagram: we're at iobmke. You can also email us at podcast@islandsofbrilliance.org.
RUBY: Oh yes, check us out there! And to wrap it up, I thought at the end of every IOB workshop, we always ask a participant how they want to celebrate their beautiful artwork so Woodzick and listeners feel free to participate as well. Woodzick, how would you like to celebrate?
WOODZICK: Thank you for asking, Ruby! Now this is not a celebration that perhaps lends itself well to an audio medium but one of our co-workers, Kadijiha, they recently wanted to celebrate with an eyes closed dance party and so i'm going to propose that we do a five second eyes closed dance party and i will provide some random mouth music okay three two one
(Random singing, ending with "closed eye dance party!")
Okay that was pretty good that was pretty good! Ruby, how do you want to celebrate?
RUBY: I'm going to just do--how about everyone, give me a "Yeehaw!"
WOODIZCK: Okay! I'll count you down: okay, three, two, one...
RUBY AND WOODZICK: YEEHAW!
WOODZICK: So, dear listeners, that's our first episode, we hope you celebrate yourself today, and we will see you next month.
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About The Brilliant Voices Podcast
The Brilliant Voices Podcast is co-hosted and produced by Islands of Brilliance Creative Technologist Ruby Wilson (they/she) and Statewide Outreach Manager Woodzick (they/them). These conversations focus on the relationship between neurodiversity and creativity. Islands of Brilliance (IOB) is an innovation lab that develops creativity-based learning experiences that improve the lives of neurodivergent children, teens, and adults. We change the way society views autistic individuals.
Connect with us on Instagram by following @IOBMKE, or send us an email at podcast@islandsofbrilliance.org.
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Meet the Brilliant Voices Team!
Woodzick
Woodzick (they/them) is our Co-host and Statewide Outreach Manager.
Ruby
Ruby Wilson (they/she) is our Co-host and an Islands of Brilliance Creative Technologist.
Dr. Kate
Dr. Kate Siekman (she/her) is a Brilliant Voices contributor and our Director of Learning & Outcomes
